Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 6:18 PM
Subject: CLOUD'S "DOUBLE STANDARD" [06/21/04]

Brother Gary Hudson has been recently been exposing David Cloud of the "King James Only Arts & Crafts Manufacturing Co." for using a double-standard. It seems that Cloud has been condemning aother pastor for some type of association with Seventh-Day Adventists, but Cloud himself promotes David O. Fuller's book, "Which Bible?" which uses material from Seventh-Day Adventist, Benjamin Wilkinson, to embellish "King James Onlyism." Among other things, Brother Hudson replied to Cloud and exposed the chicanery of the deliberate effort made to conceal Wilkinson's SDA identity:

Why did you give the late Dr. David Otis Fuller a pass for using Seventh-Day Adventist author, missionary, and SDA college president Benjamin G. Wilkinson for half the material in his book, Which Bible? To say we see a double-standard here indeed would be to put it mildly.

In another article, Brother Hudson replies to Cloud:

Any objective comparison of Wilkinson's original Authorized Bible Vindicated with Fuller's "reproduction" thereof in Which Bible? reveals a calculated, deliberate effort to conceal Wilkinson's identity. The footnotes to Ellen G. White were omitted while most all of the other footnotes remained. In fact, a whole paragraph is reproduced and foot-noted by Wilkinson from Ellen G. White's Great Controversy and the unsuspecting reader was never told by Fuller of its true source in Which Bible? This was no "mistake" at all. In fact, D. A. Waite told me in 1989 that "Dr. Fuller didn't like to mention" that Wilkinson was SDA because "he knew how people would react." That was no mere "mistake," my friend.

Bob to Gary Hudson:

Thanks for the information about David Cloud's double-standard. We learned long ago that Cloud is obviously making too much filthy lucre in his "King James Only Arts & Crafts Manufacturing Co." franchise to say or do anything which would tend to hinder the sale of products.

Cloud has demonstrated he will use an Adventist, Romanists, Baptismal Regenerationalists, even a Campbellite, if he thinks it will help promote the sale of his hobbyhorses. Despite repeated requests, he has never produced the evidence from C. H. Spurgeon that the quotation he uses which contains an alleged statement by Spurgeon is actually valid information. Note the following which was published several years ago:


The "Revised English Bible" was published in 1877, a few years before the version known as the "English Revised Version" (1881-84).  They are not the same, though similar
in name.

In the context of the translation controversy and the name of C. H. Spurgeon, the "Revised English Version" of 1877 is of interest.  Spurgeon had a review of this translation in the September 1877 issue of The Sword and the Trowel:

"This carries out the very work which was needed to be done.  Here is our own English Bible" [KJV] "with its MISTRANSLATIONS amended, and its obsolete words and  coarse phrases removed, so that it can be read in families without the need to omit certain verses on account of the children..

"Mr. Gurney has done great service to the church by employing learned men to make the needful corrections" [of the KJV].

"Not one word is altered more than it needed to be, nor are the thoughts re-cast, it is our own grandmother's Bible" [KJV], "with many a BLUNDER of the translator's set to rights" **[see Bob's note below] .

"We commend the work heartily, and hope that every student in the Bible will get a copy: we do not know what the price may be, or we would gladly insert it.  No production of the press has pleased us more than this." (S & T, Sept. 1877, page 438).

"Mr. Gurney" was Joseph Gurney, and in a review of the 1881 New Testament by G. Duncan in the S & T, page 344, there is this remark:

"Twenty years ago a committee of BAPTIST scholars was formed by Mr. Joseph Gurney to revise the whole Bible at his expense, and the result appeared about four years ago in our revised English Bible."

**Bob's Note [below]:


The word "BLUNDER" makes me wonder if this may not be the source of the "quote" attributed to Spurgeon by T. H. Pattison, which is paraded on David Cloud's website without any documentation whatsoever from Spurgeon. I have yet to find, nor has
anyone supplied, the source in Spurgeon of Pattison's alleged "quote" which has Spurgeon calling the ERV of 1881 a "blunder Bible," as given in David Cloud's Internet website and writings. Cloud could not supply the source in Spurgeon for this alleged quote, nor has anyone else supplied it.  I think Pattison must have mistaken the application of Spurgeon's remark, which in fact was in reference to the KJV's "blunders."

At any rate, in the foregoing review from C. H. Spurgeon's "Sword and Trowel" magazine, it is clear that the term "blunder" is plainly a reference to the King James Bible itself.  Spurgeon's "grandmother's Bible" was of course the King James Bible, and he says this 1877 Revised English Bible set to rights "many a BLUNDER of the translator's," referring to "blunders" by the KJV translators.

Spurgeon also referred to "the common version" [KJV] in sermon #1604 and said, "we desire that the common version be purged of EVERY BLUNDER" (Metropolitan Tabernacle
Pulpit, 1881, Vol. 27, page 343). 

This again relates the word "BLUNDER" to the KJV, not to the 1881 English Revised Version.  It is obvious that Spurgeon was of the opinion that any translation would likely have "blunders." If he made the statement attributed to him by Pattison, then he could have only meant, "We did not need ANOTHER Blunder Bible to go along with the KJV Blunder Bible."

This is just further evidence of Spurgeon's historic Baptist position on Bible translations, consistent with the views of Dr. John Gill and Andrew Fuller.  While appreciating and using the KJV, they did not regard it a "perfect" translation, as per the modern theory of "King James Onlyites." In fact, Spurgeon "corrected" it on "baptize" in his sermon # 383 (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Volume 7, page 284). Here is what he said:

But, Brethren, the text says, “baptizing them.” They are to be taught and afterwards they are to be baptized. I know not why it is that we yield to the superstitions of our Christian Brethren so much as to use the word baptize at all. It is not an English, but a Greek word. It has but one meaning and cannot bear another. Throughout all the classics, without exception, it is not possible to translate it correctly, except with the idea of immersion. And believing this and knowing this, if the translation is not complete, we will complete it this morning. “Go you, therefore and teach all nations, immersing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

David Cloud and others who perpetuate the undocumented "quote" they use from Pattison are irresponsible in their representation of Spurgeon, as it is based merely on "hearsay." -- Bob L. Ross

DR. JOHN GILL [1697-1771] --

"To the Bible, in its ORIGINAL LANGUAGES, is every TRANSLATION to be brought, and by it to be examined, tried, and judged, to be CORRECTED and AMENDED: if this was not the case, we should have NO INFALLIBLE RULE to go by." (1697-1771, Body of Divinity, page 13-a).


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